The Madleen was carrying only a symbolic amount of humanitarian assistance — an amount the Israeli foreign ministry dismissed as “tiny” in its statement, and “less than a single truckload of aid.”...
“We are doing this because, no matter what odds we are against, we have to keep trying,” Ms. Thunberg said last week. “Because the moment we stop trying is when we lose our humanity. And no matter how dangerous this mission is, it’s not even near as dangerous as the silence of the entire world in the face of the live-streamed genocide.”
Those statements from Israeli foreign ministry and from Thunberg are saying the same thing: The boat trip was symbolic speech.
The speech was delivered, no one was hurt, and no one received substantive aid.
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80 comments:
One of the strange consequences of signing on to leftist propaganda is the obligation to sign on to every leftist propaganda movement in “solidarity.” I did the same thing when I was 19, and I eventually accumulated a shitload of propaganda alliance obligations. It was, in fact, trying to reconcile all these propaganda obligations that eventually caused my leftist commitment to disintegrate.
Most of these people are drug addicts, why not just arrest them for suspicion of drug trafficking?
In other words, today's episode of "Our intentions were good, but we have no clue what we're doing"
At least they extended their 15 minutes of fame for another 30 seconds.
IDF ordered to make Greta and friends watch videos of October 7.
Virtue signaling.
Greta's a real peach, ain't she?
Celebrity head is an ingrained feature of selfie-hood. Pun intended? Maybe, baby.
Selfie yacht rock: “celebrities” rocking the boat?
I heard it had a cargo of tampons.
Apparently she has no idea about the 20k+ mostly children that starve to death in other parts of the world, and have been for years and years.
Ahhhh ... but Greta got pet. That's the entire mission; the stroking of her giant ego.
Don Quixote felt really good about himself slaying giants as well. Once you start looking at the actions of Leftists through the lens of them fulfilling a strong desire to feel like they are 'good' people and to have others view them as 'good' people it is hard to see other motivations as being a better explanation for their actions.
What is wrong with you people? She is supporting innocent people not Hamas. What is happening in Gaza is a tragedy. It isn’t left wing to feel for the innocent people who are suffering. Many more people have died by Israel’s actions in Gaza than died on October 7. I don’t agree with everything Greta does but her support here is not unwarranted. Not everyone in Palestine is a terrorist.
Somebody posted a photo of the relatively small sailboat that was outfitted with absolutely everything needed to sail in style and comfort, asking 'where is the aid?'. But it should have been obvious: The tiny sailboat was jam-packed with solidarity, and there are plenty of selfies and group photos to prove it. Oh - you wanted food?
"...Not everyone in Palestine is a terrorist...." That's true, but nearly everybody in Palestine is a voter. You know what they vote for? They vote for being led by Hamas. The UN watches over their elections, too. If those are the standard they want, they are the standards they will be held to.
Fed up to here with the 100% Bad Faith experts demanding to be treated with civility as they dig more tunnels under schools and mosques.
"A cargo of tampons"? Or RU-486, selfie-lessly delivered as humanitarian aid in a modern Trojan horse.
Shouting Thomas pretty much described my journey from lefty Democrat in the early 80's to conservative independent.
I used to thank Ronald Reagan for that change, but the Democrat propagandists deserve a lot of the credit.
Andy Warhol says that one day we will all have 15 minutes of fame.
I wonder what the time limit is on infamy?
She's 22 now, so maybe she could write a book or get a job or actually do something.
At least she graduated from high school recently.
I would vote for her to get a Nobel peace prize if she would say, "I don't think climate change is going to destroy the world like I said it was going to do."
Instead of admitting how wrong she was, she decided to gear shift to anti-war activist.
It's not her that is so embarrassing, it's all the liberals who think she's important. The left is embarrassing, and your out-of-puberty child leader is exhibit one.
they are "GOING TO BREAK THE SIEGE OF GAZA!"
by bringing in 100 kg (212 lbs) of flour..
this will be enough to feed 100 people.. one day *WOW* !!!!
serious question: what are gretta's crew going to eat while they are in gaza? i'm ASSUMING not the flour?
She is using her celebrity to bring attention to the suffering of innocents. There is nothing wrong with that. Those of you making snide comments about her are loathsome assholes. And I am far from a leftist progressive. There is nothing left or right about this situation. You can hate Hamas but support Palestine and detest the needless suffering going on.
Lawnerd, I agree that what is happening in Gaza is terrible. I would respect Greta if said "Free Gaza", and explained that she meant freedom from both Israel and Hamas. Because Hamas cares more about hurting Israel than in helping Palestinians, and has brought this tragedy on by their actions. Hamas is one step up from the Islamic State.
So because some people in Palestine vote for Hamas they all deserve to die. Fuck you if that is what you believe.
If the Israelis asked me, I’d suggest letting her land in Gaza, then sink her boat and prevent her from leaving.
“How dare you…”
Lawnerd?
how is she "supporting" these people?
with the 100 kg of flour?
oh! you mean, by bringing publicity to the most broadcast issue on earth?
I wonder how much Greta gets paid? She’s worth some Monet to the groups she supports, since she gets lots of attention.
I agree Hamas is terrible. But bombing the living shit out of Palestine is not going to stop terrorism it is only going to create the next generation of terrorists. Innocent people are dying, that is nothing to cheer for.
Palestine... thoughts of Rome and imperial conquest... reconquista? A prescient warning.
Gilbar, why do you care what she feels passionate about? So what is it to you? What is the harm? It just seems that people here are pissed that Greta is using here celebrity to call out the horrendous situation in Gaza.
Lawnerd - I mostly stay out of this, but it seems either disingenuous or naive to say that this "protest" is actually about the privations of innocent Gazans. "Solidarity" with "Palestinians" definitionally implies support of Hamas: who on the side of "I stand with Palestine!" has ever said, "... and that's why, in addition to demanding a cessation of Israeli genocide [I'll play along for purposes of this comment only], I also demand that Hamas stop using innocent Gazans as human shields, stop confiscating aid and then selling it back to Gazans, and return any remaining hostages, or at least their remains, to Israel"?
We killed a whole lot more Japanese, including civilians, in WWII than they killed Americans, including civilians, at Pearl Harbor, as many have observed. Israel considers itself to be in at least as "real" a war as we did then.
As for Thunberg's using her celebrity to "bring attention to the suffering of innocents" - is the situation lacking in global attention? On the contrary, it's hard to escape. She's attempting to transfer her weirdly-conferred climate celebrity to an entirely different issue to bring attention to herself.
"I agree Hamas is terrible. But bombing the living shit out of Palestine is not going to stop terrorism..."
Whose death count numbers are you using ? The Hamas Gold Standard of eleventy billion, al of them women and children and no terrorists, 'promise'? That's the problem with always lying. Sooner of later, nobody believes you anymore, because you lie. Maybe they should try abiding by the truth, and maybe they should stop saying 'death to Israel' with every waking breath. Maybe tolerance might produce a little tolerance in return. Slaughtering unarmed innocents at a music festival, cutting off heads and kicking them around like soccer balls, and showing joyful celebration - not so much.
The structures are bombed. The Hamasidols, too. The people are warned that prosecuting murder, rape, torture, and abduction is the virtue signal of ethical vice.
Why the hate for Greta? What specific wrong is she doing? For that I find this board’s tone repulsive. Again, I don’t agree with Greta about her stance on global warming but I would never insult her for it. I would simply disagree. Here I agree with her, the situation in Gaza is horrible and those calling for the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people are inhumane douchebags in my book.
Iman said...
“How dare you…”
Perfect.
This board sucks. Out.
Her scam is dead at the moment. No point in sitting idle. There’s plenty of other grifts to promote…
One of the strange consequences of signing on to leftist propaganda is the obligation to sign on to every leftist propaganda movement in “solidarity.”
Irreconcilable.
The people who comment here are thoughtful and resistant to manipulation from top down political campaigns. When you incentivize terrorism you get more terrorism. If you want the body count to stop get the NGOs and DC PR firms to stop incentivizing more terrorism…
@Lawnerd Who are the people whose minds were changed by her voyage? Who are the people that have been motivated to take additional actions in support of the Palestinian people? I suspect there are at least some but not many. Althouse has a tag for the word "performative", which usually winds up being a lefty critique of the actions of other lefties. Her voyage is about her trying to make herself feel better about herself ultimately. This is part of a larger problem on the left where they come off as inauthentic. We've seen Corey Booker's I-am-Spartacus "record-breaking" Senate speech, congressional Democrats sitting on the capital steps and rapping about social justice, congressional Democrats singing "We Shall Overcome" when Al Greene was censured for disrupting the State of the Union speech, and lots of other performances. It is all just narcissistic fakery.
It isn’t left wing to feel for the innocent people who are suffering.
Who started the war? Do you think the IDF is kidnapping children and raping women? Because that was Hamas policy. Who's flying the Nazi flags?
I know there were innocent Germans in Nazi Germany, who suffered horribly in World War 2. But that doesn't mean you go on a celebrity cruise to Nazi Germany to try to bring a symbolic nothing to the suffering German people.
Right?
It's a war. War is hell. There is suffering on both sides. And one of the ugly things that people do in a war is pick a side and kill people until the war is over.
I'm pulling for Israel. And I got no sympathy for Hamas.
Hamasidols are a first-order forcing of catastrophic anthropogenic climate change. Israel is sacrificing blood and treasure to mitigate its progress and collateral damage through reduction and sequestration. All aboard.
It is astounding to me Thunberg is perceived as influential, so much so she’s now more of a promotor for hire for whatever campaign has a fresh infusion of cash ATM. It’s also quite surprising her antics never seem to have caught on the way they have in Europe, even with US lefties.
And if you want to support aid shipments in the Gaza Strip, support Yasser Abu-Shabab, who has a small army in southern Gaza.
CNN asks if he's a "traitor." Traitor to who? Hamas? Do you think he's secretly Jewish? How stupid can you be, CNN?
Hamas is a death cult and CNN is like a woman who has fallen in love with a killer on death row.
I'm with Lawturd. You people are a bunch of Karen's just like the Lily Livered Libturds you hate.
those calling for the death of hundreds of thousands of innocent people are inhumane douchebags in my book.
If anyone were doing that, I'd agree!
But just as there's a difference between Hamas and a Gazan who didn't vote for Hamas but has to live under them, there's a difference between recognizing that Israel believes (I happen to think they're right but YMMV) that they're fighting for their existence against people who have stated their goal as Israel's non-existence and have a shocking amount of international support, and "calling for the death of hundreds of thousands."
Greta Thunberg rose to international fame by being aggressively forwarded as the Face of Climate Change Protest; that isn't her fault. And she's grown up in the international limelight with - we can infer - a powerful sense of moral authority on that account, just like David Hogg. This is only partly her fault - it's very hard to resist that kind of message when it's blasted at you constantly, when you're lovebombed like that. Like others hereon, I blame the international Left a whole lot more than I blame Thunberg.
I find this board’s tone repulsive.
That's me, I got the bad tone. She's an adult now. She's 22. I figure she can take it. What's the age of adulthood in Europe now, 30? When can I harsh her vibe?
When she yelled at me for destroying her planet--she yelled at a lot of people, but I was around, you know, so partially to blame, I guess--I bit my tongue on account of her age, and how embarrassing Little Miss Joan of Arc is in the 21st century. Sorry we burned you alive, Greta.
I don't understand the hold that Israel has over the Liberal/left elite mind. I can understand the Libtard attitude. They just follow the party line like robots. And that's 90 percent of liberal/leftists.
But the smarter ones, the elite, pretend to have values. They pretend to love brown people. They pretend to hate racism, Ethnic chauvanism and injustice. But when its Israel, they make it clear they're on the side Genocide, Jewish Supremacy, starvation, and grinding those "People of color" into the dust.
But then, their liberal/left Grandparents probably loved "Uncle Joe" who was "Building a workers paradise". So maybe they've always been fakes and frauds. Killers behind the "Bleeding heart" mask.
There are 45 armed conflicts in the Middle East and North Africa.
"Syria is the most affected country in the region."
Africa has 35 regional conflicts.
Asia has 21.
Europe has 7.
Latin America has 6.
So that's a question for the anti-Israel brigade. Why are you so obsessed with the war in Gaza?
Here's CAIR's report on Syria.
I had no idea. You see nothing of this in the media. There's a war in Ukraine and there's a war in Gaza. Those are the two I hear about (all the time).
So the news media that is supposed to inform us about the truth? They ignore a lot of truth and just tell us about their narratives and their obsessions.
The Ivy League people who run elite news media went to places like Yale and Harvard and picked up that diploma.
Those schools were enriched by money from Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich states. And the students were indoctrinated to blame Israel for any war in the Middle East.
Israel is the problem. Israel has to go.
That's what our upper class children were taught. And so that's how corrupt our news media has become.
Here's a cause for Greta. Gazan civilians are never protected by bomb shelters though most are within a few metres of Hamas tunnels that could be bomb shelters for civilians as they are for Hamas. Greta could advocate for these civilians; she could go to Gaza and say to Hamas: "How dare you exclude civilians from safety in the Hamas tunnels?"
Hamas built bomb shelters for itself, then attacked Israel, ducked into the bomb shelters and from that safe position is sending out appeals to the Gretas of the world to stop Israel's bombing because the unsheltered civilians in Gaza are suffering. So a real humanitarian would be asking Hamas to let the Gaza civilians use the hundreds of miles of Hamas tunnels as bomb shelters. After all, one reason for the difference between the Israeli and Gazan civilian death toll is that the Israelis built bomb shelters for their civilians. When Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis launched thousand upon thousands of rockets at Israel most civilians were able to reach shelter. How dare Hamas exclude Gaza civilians from a similar existing protection? But why should Hamas worry? Greta will take selfies and leave.
My prediction: in the fullness of time, if the hold Hamas has on the Palestinian people is broken, they will become a happy, safe, and successful people. Palestinians are in an abusive relationship with Hamas and need help to get out. It’s not an easy thing to do.
Similar to Stockholm syndrome. The police are not the abuser, the abuser is the abuser.
gilbar said...
“Seriously question: what are Greta’s crew going to eat while they are in Gaza? I’m ASSUMING not the flour.”
Since Greta is Swedish, I’m assuming Bruna bönor och fläsk, or maybe Fläsklägg med rotmos.
The Israelis should drop Greta and her fellow celebrities off in the now balmy Antarctic.
The walking the plank thing isn't done anymore?
Lawnerd said...
"So because some people in Palestine vote for Hamas they all deserve to die. Fuck you if that is what you believe."
OK. Who let the simpleton in?
"The speech was delivered, no one was hurt, and no one received substantive aid."
A microcosm of the left. Speak loudly, spend bales of cash, signal that good ol' virtue, demonize your opponents, deliver nothing.
One problem with the Pro-Palestine Liberal/left, that is opposing the Genocide in Gaza, is they're so tepid and fearful, they accomplish nothing. Corbyn the ex-Labour leader for example, is so vague and general in his comments, you can barely understand that he's talking about Israel and Gaza. And he shies away from any truthful criticism of the Bibi's war criminal actions.
This absurd Yacht stunt is no different. It seems designed to feeble and useless and just allow the people involved to "feel good about themselves" without actually taking on the Israeli lobby or getting their Governments to stop supporting Genocide in Gaza.
Sieze the boat, all its contents, and deliver the passengers and crew to the shores of Gaza. Wish them luck.
Zionist reaction on this board always follows the same pattern. Never defense or engage on Israel's genocidal actions and war crimes. Instead talk about Hammas or call Israel's critics names.
And no, just because you get attacked doesn't mean you get to committ Genocide. A warcrime like firebombing Dresden, isn't justified because "They started it by attacking Poland".
Using that "logic" I guess the Union army could've murdered a couple hundred thousand Southern women and kids, because "The south started it".
There's a war in Ukraine and there's a war in Gaza. Those are the two I hear about (all the time).
Black Lives [Don't] Matter. Brown Lives Matter? Neither do Muslims in China. Free Tibet! Is South Africa still the rape capital of the world, or has Sweden assumed that ignoble ceremony? Afghanistan is gone with the wind. Meanwhile, LA burns and burns again as a totem sacrifice to Democrazi.
The Palestinians killed around 1000 Israelis on Oct 7. In response, the Israelis have killed around 50,000 Palestinians, a ratio of 50-1. At Pearl Harbor the Japanese killed around 2000 Americans. In response, we nuked two cities and killed around 2 million Japanese, a ratio of 1000-1. You have to admire Israel’s restraint.
War is hell, which is why it’s a bad idea to declare one on an adversary capable of your total destruction. Sadly, some lessons can only be learned the hard way.
“ My prediction: in the fullness of time, if the hold Hamas has on the Palestinian people is broken, they will become a happy, safe, and successful people.”
Sure. Just like all the happy, safe, and successful people in all the other Islamist shitholes over there.
Because the moment we stop trying is when we lose our humanity said the human robot.
Because Hamas cares more about hurting Israel than in helping Palestinians, and has brought this tragedy on by their actions.
Hamas actually cares more about hurting Palestinians than does Israel - that is why they use Palestinians as shields.
Israel sees itself in the same position the Allies were in Europe in early 1945. Germany was beat, but anything less than Germany's surrender and the dissolution of the Nazi party was not an acceptable conclusion. If HamaSS (second 'S' intentional) exists in Gaza when this is over that should not be an acceptable conclusion.
Or as G.W. Bush famously told the world, "Mission Accomplished".
"The boat trip was symbolic speech."
So, it was a performance. Is there video?
"Lawnerd said...
So because some people in Palestine vote for Hamas they all deserve to die. Fuck you if that is what you believe."
As a native californicator, I can relate to that statement...
I like the French approach better. They blew up Rainbow Warrior. Of course they apologized later, but in a very snotty French way that said they weren’t sorry.
"In response, we nuked two cities and killed around 2 million Japanese, a ratio of 1000-1"
We were willing to accept a lot less or a lot more, but it was not up to us. Same with Israel. Maybe the U.N. could tax spent ammunition to encourage peace.
It's boring the temporary puppets announce their departure, though they've stopped announcing their arrival. That's nice...
Lawnerd said:
And I am far from a leftist progressive. There is nothing left or right about this situation. You can hate Hamas but support Palestine and detest the needless suffering going on.
*****************
OK, give us your solution. If "you can hate Hamas but support Palestine", how do you separate the two?
Zionist reaction on this board always follows the same pattern. Never defense or engage on Israel's genocidal actions and war crimes.
What “war crimes” are those? Be specific. Attacks on hospitals (a popular choice for a war-crime charge)? Indeed Israel does attack hospitals—all of them—in Gaza, and indeed hospitals are specially protected by the Geneva Convention(s).
Yet, a hospital is not a protected building if Hamas has been illegally using it. Israel invading (or even destroying) such a hospital in response is perfectly well authorized by the Geneva Conventions — provided notice is given.
Specifically, the IVth Geneva Convention (1949), Article 19 (and associated the 1958 Commentary), has to do with how the one way hospital(s) can lose the general protection that they're otherwise universally due, is as a result of enemy misbehavior within their premises—in which case they explicitlyl lose that protection. The pertinent portion of IVth Geneva Article 19 reads as follows: {quoting…}
The protection to which civilian hospitals are entitled shall not cease unless they are used to commit, outside their humanitarian duties, acts harmful to the enemy {that is: Israel in the Gaza situation}. Protection may, however, cease only after due warning has been given {…}.
{/unQuote}
Which is clear enough. But, take it a little further with the official 1958 “Commentary” on the Convention, which in part reads: {quoting…}
Such harmful acts would, for example, include the use of a hospital as a shelter for able-bodied combatants or fugitives, as an arms or ammunition store, as a military observation post, or as a centre for liaison with fighting troops.
{/unQuote}
The irony in folk like RcOcean's endless critiques of Israel in regard to Gaza, is that Hamas has clearly been using (all of!) the Gazan hospitals for all of those explicitly forbidden things. Ergo—providing proper notice is provided in every case—the hospitals are basically (under the Geneva Conventions!) due no protection against Israeli occupation or even obliteration.
And as for this:
Using that “logic” I guess the Union army could've murdered a couple hundred thousand Southern women and kids, because “The south started it”.
The Confederate rebels would never have been so terrifically dishonorable as to hide behind their women's skirts and children's tiny pants—which example itself illuminates Hamas' continuing perfidy and evil. But if the South had done so, the United States arguably would have been even more justified in defeating the rebellious states expeditiously. If that in turn had the effect of killing some of the civilian “shields”, responsibility would lie—as always—with the hostage holders of any slaughtered in the melee and bombardments.
Most of the people who are killed in modern wars are civilians, not soldiers. When a government starts a war, it bears responsibility for the deaths of its civilians, and it presumably thinks that the objective of the war justifies its cost. If the government that starts the war concludes that it cannot achieve its objective without an excessive loss, it is supposed to surrender to stop the slaughter. Hamas refuses to surrender, knowing that this means that civilian losses will continue, presumably because it thinks that the deaths of Palestinian civilians will improve the chances of a successful outcome of the war through international pressure. Well-meaning but foolish people sailing boats with symbolic aid to Gaza encourage Hamas to believe that continued deaths of Gazan civilians will advance Hamas' objectives, and this will extend the war and the dying.
"If the government that starts the war concludes that it cannot achieve its objective without an excessive loss, it is supposed to surrender to stop the slaughter."
That's an interesting view of history. From the Nazi perspective the Jews/Brits/french started the war. So therefore, using your logic, the holocaust was justified. After all if the Brits (and from the Nazi perspective the Jews) wanted the "slaughter" to stop, they should have surrendered.
And lets see, since we attacked Mexico in 1846, santa anna was justified in killing everyone in the Alamo and at Goliad. After we started it. And since we declared war on Germany in 1917, the Germany's would have been within their rights to drop poison gas on NYC, or murder every Doughboy. Because, y'know "we started it".
LOL. Good thing the Althouse comment section has no power. If they did, we'd probably be dropping A-bombs on Gaza or Moscow.
Jefferson wrote: "He has...endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions."
Guess Jefferson got that wrong. The "Merciless Indian Savages" were just realistic Goddamn Macho Americans, who said: "Kill em all, and let God sort of out".
If the whites on the frontier didn't like seeing their kids murdered, their women raped and killed, and themselves scalped, they should have surrendered.
When I was in grad school, the other students and professors voted to retain even used hotel soaps and shampoos they got at pricey useless conferences where they discussed creating more genders to ship to needy "Africa."
Just what Africa needs. More plastic waste and faux lesbian pubic hair.
This is a real story.
RCOKE II: the very best thing we could do for the "Natives" living on reservations is free them of the other "Native" casino owners who keep them that way to exploit them as victims. Dismantle the reservations system; offer ample job training; get rid of the set-aside laws, which basically create a classic mob owner system, and offer carrot and stick solutions for their problems, entirely created by many generations of innocent, living, idiot people later.
Free the Native Americans. Really free them. And no more bullshit "thanking the true owners of this land" crap before meetings, either.
Checking out the name Cindy Sheehan would be instructive to Greta and those pursuing fame and power by being a hero of the left.
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